Difficult situation for me to make up my mind.
Yes, i am against any harrassment of women in general. Such behavior, alhough present in more or less everyones heritage, shall stop being carried forward.
Also, i witnessed sexist opinions in several chess communities and clubs, culminating in denying successes like Susan Polgars of being realistically possible.
And in such tense environment, i can imagine some "not so special friends" to use public means for fighting over unresolved relationship disorders. The reported incidents have not been handled in the best possible way, but show some bias in the weighting of such reports.
Thus, i can understand and tolerate lichess team behavior, which seems to be well motivated. And i still am not persuaded, that all of its position is based on objective reports. I have seen unfair allegations in my life, and i understand a little bit about how our brains can "change history", convincing even oneself of a reality, that might never have existed. Some doubt must thus be permitted before getting to a judgement on this.
For my own, i will be very attentive in the future about statements involving (or issued by) the people mentionned in this article,
Yes, i am against any harrassment of women in general. Such behavior, alhough present in more or less everyones heritage, shall stop being carried forward.
Also, i witnessed sexist opinions in several chess communities and clubs, culminating in denying successes like Susan Polgars of being realistically possible.
And in such tense environment, i can imagine some "not so special friends" to use public means for fighting over unresolved relationship disorders. The reported incidents have not been handled in the best possible way, but show some bias in the weighting of such reports.
Thus, i can understand and tolerate lichess team behavior, which seems to be well motivated. And i still am not persuaded, that all of its position is based on objective reports. I have seen unfair allegations in my life, and i understand a little bit about how our brains can "change history", convincing even oneself of a reality, that might never have existed. Some doubt must thus be permitted before getting to a judgement on this.
For my own, i will be very attentive in the future about statements involving (or issued by) the people mentionned in this article,
Hi. As someone who've been heavily involved in U.S. Chess since 2008, and have also known Gareyev to a certain extent:
I applaud lichess for "breaking the silence". Sexual misconduct is an absolutely embarrassing sort of incident that must not be relegated to the backburner. Chess is a game, an art, a sport, and one of its most invaluable qualities derive from its ability to promote understanding of cultures, ideas, and people different from those of the chess player him/herself. Setting aside the criminal nature of sexual assaults legally and morally, these incidents do not promote these fundamental ideals of chess, but instead sabotage them. How can U.S. Chess hope for chess to be universal when a vast majority of the chess-playing population in its tournaments are male in large due part to the discrimination and harm that women receive? If U.S. Chess cannot guarantee safety for half of the U.S. population, it holds no legitimacy as a governing body of chess in the United States. Moving forward, we must establish precedents for more prompt, thorough, and harsh response and investigations of such matters.
Delegating special privileges, written or unwritten, for titled players, is, to put it simply, a disgusting practice. I personally hold a title under the U.S. Chess Federation, and nevertheless condemn any practice of applying differing moral and legal standards to these players compared to untitled players. The belief apparently seems to be that holding titled players accountable for their actions will harm the image of chess.... let me tell you, not holding them accountable will cause even more debilitating damage to the future of chess.
Perhaps lichess can go one step further and replace the U.S. flag on lichess with a different image to express its position on this issue, as it did when Russia invaded Ukraine. Values, when applied in a non-uniform manner based on the identity of the receiving end of these measures, are not values at all.
I applaud lichess for "breaking the silence". Sexual misconduct is an absolutely embarrassing sort of incident that must not be relegated to the backburner. Chess is a game, an art, a sport, and one of its most invaluable qualities derive from its ability to promote understanding of cultures, ideas, and people different from those of the chess player him/herself. Setting aside the criminal nature of sexual assaults legally and morally, these incidents do not promote these fundamental ideals of chess, but instead sabotage them. How can U.S. Chess hope for chess to be universal when a vast majority of the chess-playing population in its tournaments are male in large due part to the discrimination and harm that women receive? If U.S. Chess cannot guarantee safety for half of the U.S. population, it holds no legitimacy as a governing body of chess in the United States. Moving forward, we must establish precedents for more prompt, thorough, and harsh response and investigations of such matters.
Delegating special privileges, written or unwritten, for titled players, is, to put it simply, a disgusting practice. I personally hold a title under the U.S. Chess Federation, and nevertheless condemn any practice of applying differing moral and legal standards to these players compared to untitled players. The belief apparently seems to be that holding titled players accountable for their actions will harm the image of chess.... let me tell you, not holding them accountable will cause even more debilitating damage to the future of chess.
Perhaps lichess can go one step further and replace the U.S. flag on lichess with a different image to express its position on this issue, as it did when Russia invaded Ukraine. Values, when applied in a non-uniform manner based on the identity of the receiving end of these measures, are not values at all.
@modernpetrosian said in #148:
> Hi. As someone who've been heavily involved in U.S. Chess since 2008, and have also known Gareyev to a certain extent:
>
> I applaud lichess for "breaking the silence". Sexual misconduct is an absolutely embarrassing sort of incident that must not be relegated to the backburner. Chess is a game, an art, a sport, and one of its most invaluable qualities derive from its ability to promote understanding of cultures, ideas, and people different from those of the chess player him/herself. Setting aside the criminal nature of sexual assaults legally and morally, these incidents do not promote these fundamental ideals of chess, but instead sabotage them. How can U.S. Chess hope for chess to be universal when a vast majority of the chess-playing population in its tournaments are male in large due part to the discrimination and harm that women receive? If U.S. Chess cannot guarantee safety for half of the U.S. population, it holds no legitimacy as a governing body of chess in the United States. Moving forward, we must establish precedents for more prompt, thorough, and harsh response and investigations of such matters.
>
> Delegating special privileges, written or unwritten, for titled players, is, to put it simply, a disgusting practice. I personally hold a title under the U.S. Chess Federation, and nevertheless condemn any practice of applying differing moral and legal standards to these players compared to untitled players. The belief apparently seems to be that holding titled players accountable for their actions will harm the image of chess.... let me tell you, not holding them accountable will cause even more debilitating damage to the future of chess.
>
> Perhaps lichess can go one step further and replace the U.S. flag on lichess with a different image to express its position on this issue, as it did when Russia invaded Ukraine. Values, when applied in a non-uniform manner based on the identity of the receiving end of these measures, are not values at all.
LMAO the entire U.S. isnt involved in this it isnt a national effort it was a few people misbehaving that were not properly delt with by the us chess fed its completely dif duh
> Hi. As someone who've been heavily involved in U.S. Chess since 2008, and have also known Gareyev to a certain extent:
>
> I applaud lichess for "breaking the silence". Sexual misconduct is an absolutely embarrassing sort of incident that must not be relegated to the backburner. Chess is a game, an art, a sport, and one of its most invaluable qualities derive from its ability to promote understanding of cultures, ideas, and people different from those of the chess player him/herself. Setting aside the criminal nature of sexual assaults legally and morally, these incidents do not promote these fundamental ideals of chess, but instead sabotage them. How can U.S. Chess hope for chess to be universal when a vast majority of the chess-playing population in its tournaments are male in large due part to the discrimination and harm that women receive? If U.S. Chess cannot guarantee safety for half of the U.S. population, it holds no legitimacy as a governing body of chess in the United States. Moving forward, we must establish precedents for more prompt, thorough, and harsh response and investigations of such matters.
>
> Delegating special privileges, written or unwritten, for titled players, is, to put it simply, a disgusting practice. I personally hold a title under the U.S. Chess Federation, and nevertheless condemn any practice of applying differing moral and legal standards to these players compared to untitled players. The belief apparently seems to be that holding titled players accountable for their actions will harm the image of chess.... let me tell you, not holding them accountable will cause even more debilitating damage to the future of chess.
>
> Perhaps lichess can go one step further and replace the U.S. flag on lichess with a different image to express its position on this issue, as it did when Russia invaded Ukraine. Values, when applied in a non-uniform manner based on the identity of the receiving end of these measures, are not values at all.
LMAO the entire U.S. isnt involved in this it isnt a national effort it was a few people misbehaving that were not properly delt with by the us chess fed its completely dif duh
@DukeGusGold said in #149:
> LMAO the entire U.S. isnt involved in this it isnt a national effort it was a few people misbehaving that were not properly delt with by the us chess fed its completely dif duh
neither is all of Russa involved in the Russia-Ukraine War. I thought Putin was the one evil guy we would achieve a better world by removing from power. At least that's what Garry Kasparov says. What's your point?
> LMAO the entire U.S. isnt involved in this it isnt a national effort it was a few people misbehaving that were not properly delt with by the us chess fed its completely dif duh
neither is all of Russa involved in the Russia-Ukraine War. I thought Putin was the one evil guy we would achieve a better world by removing from power. At least that's what Garry Kasparov says. What's your point?
@modernpetrosian said in #150:
> neither is all of Russa involved in the Russia-Ukraine War. I thought Putin was the one evil guy we would achieve a better world by removing from power. At least that's what Garry Kasparov says. What's your point?
my point is that russia went too war as a nation. some people have no logic istg. a nation and a federation are to different things entirely too try and "punish" Americans by removing their flag would be preposterous! also just because gary kasparov is a master chess player doesnt mean his understanding of the world forum is as adequate
> neither is all of Russa involved in the Russia-Ukraine War. I thought Putin was the one evil guy we would achieve a better world by removing from power. At least that's what Garry Kasparov says. What's your point?
my point is that russia went too war as a nation. some people have no logic istg. a nation and a federation are to different things entirely too try and "punish" Americans by removing their flag would be preposterous! also just because gary kasparov is a master chess player doesnt mean his understanding of the world forum is as adequate
@DukeGusGold said in #151:
> my point is that russia went too war as a nation. some people have no logic istg. a nation and a federation are to different things entirely too try and "punish" Americans by removing their flag would be preposterous! also just because gary kasparov is a master chess player doesnt mean his understanding of the world forum is as adequate
so apparently a long, long history of repressing and disrespecting women is not "going too far"? Ok. Got your point. Thanks for explaining.
And yes, a nation and federation are distinct. It would be preposterous for a federation to punish players for what the head of a nation did. I agree.
I think you're missing my whole point.
> my point is that russia went too war as a nation. some people have no logic istg. a nation and a federation are to different things entirely too try and "punish" Americans by removing their flag would be preposterous! also just because gary kasparov is a master chess player doesnt mean his understanding of the world forum is as adequate
so apparently a long, long history of repressing and disrespecting women is not "going too far"? Ok. Got your point. Thanks for explaining.
And yes, a nation and federation are distinct. It would be preposterous for a federation to punish players for what the head of a nation did. I agree.
I think you're missing my whole point.
@modernpetrosian said in #152:
> so apparently a long, long history of repressing and disrespecting women is not "going too far"? Ok. Got your point. Thanks for explaining.
>
> And yes, a nation and federation are distinct. It would be preposterous for a federation to punish players for what the head of a nation did. I agree.
>
> I think you're missing my whole point.
ill put this simply whether you meant too or not your og statement came off as saying that the American flag should be removed as a form of boycott against the us chess federation. this would be a attack on the US and not just uscf . you likened such a action too those lichess took against russia. i said that it would be insanely cruel too remove a national flag because a governing body for chess in America didn't deal with sexual misconduct claims properly.
> so apparently a long, long history of repressing and disrespecting women is not "going too far"? Ok. Got your point. Thanks for explaining.
>
> And yes, a nation and federation are distinct. It would be preposterous for a federation to punish players for what the head of a nation did. I agree.
>
> I think you're missing my whole point.
ill put this simply whether you meant too or not your og statement came off as saying that the American flag should be removed as a form of boycott against the us chess federation. this would be a attack on the US and not just uscf . you likened such a action too those lichess took against russia. i said that it would be insanely cruel too remove a national flag because a governing body for chess in America didn't deal with sexual misconduct claims properly.
LOVE THIS xxx Good on you Lichess for taking a stand for the ladies! It's not always easy to be a woman in the male-dominated chess world. This sort of abuse and harassment is way more common than you might think, in person and online. I hope more chess organisations take a stand and heap up the pressure until some real action and a change in attitude happen where it needs to. The timeline of allegations and associated inaction is truly horrifying yet sadly so common.
Only yesterday I received sexually explicit, inappropriate, and abusive dms from a Lichess user who was previously banned for (among other things) bullying me (on a different account). This user has a history of serial multi-accounting, closing their account, and then reappearing with a different one. Of course, they closed this new account only minutes after sending me the offending message, so reporting it will probably be pointless. It's not just the account that needs to get banned but the person behind all the accounts. I fully expect him to reappear, yet again, and continue this harassment, it's just a matter of time. It's just something you come to expect as a female, sadly.
As I always say though for balance, whenever this topic is raised, the VAST majority of guys (because lets face it, it is mostly guys) that I know here on Lichess are really lovely, only a very tiny minority spoil it.
Only yesterday I received sexually explicit, inappropriate, and abusive dms from a Lichess user who was previously banned for (among other things) bullying me (on a different account). This user has a history of serial multi-accounting, closing their account, and then reappearing with a different one. Of course, they closed this new account only minutes after sending me the offending message, so reporting it will probably be pointless. It's not just the account that needs to get banned but the person behind all the accounts. I fully expect him to reappear, yet again, and continue this harassment, it's just a matter of time. It's just something you come to expect as a female, sadly.
As I always say though for balance, whenever this topic is raised, the VAST majority of guys (because lets face it, it is mostly guys) that I know here on Lichess are really lovely, only a very tiny minority spoil it.
Thought it was about some reclusive GM finally coming out of his hermitage from Serbia at first...
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