I already tried the "contact us" link, but the guy who responded (James Joseph Clarke, judging by his email headers) tried his best to be as unhelpful and rude as you can be (reminded me of the times of socialism in my country) and when I tried to ask him to get me in touch with someone else, he stopped responding. Does anyone know of a way to contact someone else that that guy?
I have a suspicion they'll delete your post too
he even told me I was not a customer because I haven't bought anything...
What was the question?
Two of my kids got flagged for supposedly manipulating their rating when playing some variant, I tried to intervene on their behalf. The guy was adamant that "all the games had the same exact moves" (although some of them indeed had), but I reviewed all of them - those were 5 different variants being played on several different days, with the stronger and older one winning 20:2 (19-2-1). I tried to tell the guy it's simply indicative of their playing strangth (the older is 8 years old and has and ELO around 1300 depending on a month, the younger one is 6 and is a long way from thinking about an ELO).
I answered to the emails.
You are not a customer (please stop behaving like one) and there was rating boosting. I highlighted a few games:
en.lichess.org/cpip0sEg
en.lichess.org/GYtjlESm
en.lichess.org/muTChvcy
en.lichess.org/lYM8iQTj
en.lichess.org/UK5xN29s
but there are more where they come from.
Furthermore, to send insults such as "no balls" by email is both inappropriate and sexist.
You are not a customer (please stop behaving like one) and there was rating boosting. I highlighted a few games:
en.lichess.org/cpip0sEg
en.lichess.org/GYtjlESm
en.lichess.org/muTChvcy
en.lichess.org/lYM8iQTj
en.lichess.org/UK5xN29s
but there are more where they come from.
Furthermore, to send insults such as "no balls" by email is both inappropriate and sexist.
Stats don't mean anything. If there is only one game of your kids, in which they cheated, it's enough to being banned from playing rated games. I can only assume what happened: they duplicated a game they were playing against someone to a game against the lichess stockfish AI and copied the engine response in the other game as their own move. Detection of this cheating method is pretty reliable in this case.
If so, there is nothing to do here. Let it be a life lesson for your kids.
Btw.: The person you talked to was absolutely right: you are no customer if you didn't bought something. So no one owes you support in any way. This is a free community based on voluntary work.
If so, there is nothing to do here. Let it be a life lesson for your kids.
Btw.: The person you talked to was absolutely right: you are no customer if you didn't bought something. So no one owes you support in any way. This is a free community based on voluntary work.
As you claim I'm not a customer, who am I?
The problem is that you highlighted all the games that looked similar, not the example ones; note that only two of those have identical moves.
Do you really believe that repetitively saying "there was rating boosting there" will make that statement true? It is obvious to me that the weaker, younger son tried his best to vary his play in the three check, unsuccessfully trying to defend against a winning attack of his brother. Why is it so difficult for you to comprehend that a boy that is on a level of struggling to see a two-move tactic will lose 19 games out of 22 to a guy to one of the top 8-year-olds in his country? Just for your information, I had a hard talk with the older one about those 3 games he didn't win as I suspected those 3 were rigged.
I stand by my statement in an email - you have a faulty cheat detection algorithm and you lack the courage to admit that and/or the programming ability to fix it. You are blindly defending your point of view because you think you are in a position of power. In my book, it is called hubris.
I am really glad you explicitly said I was not a customer for all the lichess users to see. You are so very wrong. Your company has a business model that depends on some income that depends on people playing chess and learning on your website. If you put off people like me and others (have you noticed people commenting on beings "mistreated" by your algorithms?), you will eventually lose that income. Please remember to tell your investors that people playing on your website are not customers!
Also, you haven't responded (yet again) to my original question - how can I get REAL HELP on this website? Is there anyone else I can talk to about this matter? Anyone who understand how to do customer service (well, maybe intruder service as I you don't recognise me as a customer).
The problem is that you highlighted all the games that looked similar, not the example ones; note that only two of those have identical moves.
Do you really believe that repetitively saying "there was rating boosting there" will make that statement true? It is obvious to me that the weaker, younger son tried his best to vary his play in the three check, unsuccessfully trying to defend against a winning attack of his brother. Why is it so difficult for you to comprehend that a boy that is on a level of struggling to see a two-move tactic will lose 19 games out of 22 to a guy to one of the top 8-year-olds in his country? Just for your information, I had a hard talk with the older one about those 3 games he didn't win as I suspected those 3 were rigged.
I stand by my statement in an email - you have a faulty cheat detection algorithm and you lack the courage to admit that and/or the programming ability to fix it. You are blindly defending your point of view because you think you are in a position of power. In my book, it is called hubris.
I am really glad you explicitly said I was not a customer for all the lichess users to see. You are so very wrong. Your company has a business model that depends on some income that depends on people playing chess and learning on your website. If you put off people like me and others (have you noticed people commenting on beings "mistreated" by your algorithms?), you will eventually lose that income. Please remember to tell your investors that people playing on your website are not customers!
Also, you haven't responded (yet again) to my original question - how can I get REAL HELP on this website? Is there anyone else I can talk to about this matter? Anyone who understand how to do customer service (well, maybe intruder service as I you don't recognise me as a customer).
Well, this is becoming fun.
"Your company has a business model that depends on some income"
Nope. We're a non-profit association, driven by the love of chess, not by money. No company, no business, no business model.
"Please remember to tell your investors that people playing on your website are not customers!"
That's a nice one. We also have no investors. I turn them down immediately and unconditionally. Lichess doesn't owe anything to anyone. Freedom! And look: it works.
So yeah, you're not a customer. Everyone else already knows it.
You are a user of a free service; wasting volunteers time.
Should you have recognized the fraud earlier, I would have been glad to assume it was not going to happen again. And the accounts would be unlocked already.
Because I want to keep giving great email support to all lichess users, it's necessary to allocate to each of them a reasonable amount of time. You have exceeded it now. I'm sorry we couldn't find an understanding, and I hope lichess will survive to your departure.
"Your company has a business model that depends on some income"
Nope. We're a non-profit association, driven by the love of chess, not by money. No company, no business, no business model.
"Please remember to tell your investors that people playing on your website are not customers!"
That's a nice one. We also have no investors. I turn them down immediately and unconditionally. Lichess doesn't owe anything to anyone. Freedom! And look: it works.
So yeah, you're not a customer. Everyone else already knows it.
You are a user of a free service; wasting volunteers time.
Should you have recognized the fraud earlier, I would have been glad to assume it was not going to happen again. And the accounts would be unlocked already.
Because I want to keep giving great email support to all lichess users, it's necessary to allocate to each of them a reasonable amount of time. You have exceeded it now. I'm sorry we couldn't find an understanding, and I hope lichess will survive to your departure.
thibault is my hero.
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